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Are the LT tires really necessary?

24044 Views 26 Replies 8 Participants Last post by  johnj, 
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Besides losing a little peace-of-mind when going off-road, are there any reasons not to put some tires with a few less plies on the Rebel?

Yes, it's a "truck". But dropping to a lower rated tire would improve the ride and mpgs, and shouldn't affect payload or towing capacity if this really is just a 1500 with a few minor tweaks.

Or, is there more to it? Is there a specific reason Ram put them on, besides it being marketed as an off road truck?
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johnj
The truck's pretty heavy. The extra plies are good even on-road. Ever driven near construction and find a nail or screw in your tread? I've lost a few reduced-ply car tires over the years to this sort of thing. There's a lot of force on those small objects at highway speeds, especially, on a 6000 lb vehicle. Lost one truck tire to a sharp 2" rock chip in Colorado that apparently was flipped up from the side of the road by another vehicle. I lost a car tire to a partial turtle shell in Missouri, ripped a 5" gash in the bottom of the tire. Wife hit a pothole on an entrance ramp in South Carolina that flattened the tire to the rim lips. Bent the lips almost flat and ruined the rim, plus ripped a nice gash completely across the tire. Had a 6" long piece of wood puncture tread on one SUV tire, at an angle that popped it out through the sidewall, too. None of this stuff was even done at excessive speed. Just normal driving.

Personally, I like heavy tires, strong sidewalls, and lotsa plies. I'd even like to add kevlar reinforcement like the tires on the president's limo. :)

You can run any tire you want as long as it's rated for the load. Ram seems to think we should have a 2900 lb load rating on the tires. Find a tire rated for that, you're good.

Is your ride suffering? Mine already rides much like a car. Hard to remember I'm driving a truck sometimes. Feel more like riding a Buick or Oldsmobile.
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lmeavtitn
Technically speaking, no...not on a Ram Rebel. You could get away with a "P" rated tire opposed to an "Lt." A "P" rated tire will handle the load a half ton truck. I, however, would not suggest it as it will change how the vehicle handles. Ram designed the suspension to run with "Lt" tires. Similarly, when you put "Lt" tires on a truck that isn't designed for it (ie suspension tuning) the truck handling is changed negatively. Also, the truck is meant to be an off roading truck. "Lt" tires are more suited for off road travel.
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G
should have bought a different truck. End of story.
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gtivr6 said:
should have bought a different truck. End of story.
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Well said. Could also sell swap if you really don't like them. Sold mine with 1k miles for $900 on Craig's list then turned around and bought 35" s for $1100 haha... it is a truck...
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C
Why do people buy a truck that is lifted from the factory and then wonder why it doesn't drive like a sports car? They wonder why they aren't getting 30+ MPG. They put parts on it that lower its capabilities. Keeping up with the Jones's? Is it the North American idea that bigger is better? They think it looks cool? It's shiney?

I don't have a problem with it. It's your money. I just never understand it. I buy a truck because I need a truck. I can't move things, go off-road or tow what I want to tow with an Austin Mini or even a Jeep.

If you put P rated tires on a Rebel the next thing will be you adding your comments to the threads that say the Rebel drives like a lifted full size truck and is bouncy. Well guess what, it IS a lifted full size truck.
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Yikes!! All I did was ask some questions... :)

I didn't complain about the ride of the Rebel. I think it's fine (all though the wife and kids don't necessarily agree). I don't want to put P rated tires on it. Had them on my 1500 Sport... THAT rode like a car. But, it sucked towing and I've had my fair share of flats in precarious situations through the years.

After changing a tire on an old logging road in northern Ontario surrounded by angry Indians, I put LT tires on the Sport, against the advice of 2 different tire shops that said it was "too much tire" for a 1/2 ton truck. They were great off-road and towing, but rough the other 75% of the time.

Hence the Rebel. Air suspension + LT tires/taller sidewall seemed like it'd be a good balance for my daily driver, family road trip, hunting/fishing, camper pulling truck. And for the most part it is. But, it's still LT tires on a stock 1/2 ton truck. Would it be bad to drop to a 6 or 8 ply for a little better balance?

If you drop to a lower rated tire on a 3/4 ton, you've affected the payload, towing and such, right? I doubt the same applies to the 1/2 ton Rebel... does it?

The suspension is "designed" for LT tires. What does that mean, exactly? Designed for 10 ply pro-grade tires, or just bigger tires?
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No offense, but based on all your questions it sounds to me like you really should have gotten another 1500 Sport. I really have no idea what you mean when you say it rides worse than a regular 1500, I traded in a 2011 sport for this thing and the Rebel rides way better.
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CTYHNTR said:
I really have no idea what you mean when you say it rides worse than a regular 1500,
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I don't either, because I don't think I said that.
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johnj
I grew up driving trucks. You don't know a rough ride till you drive a 50's / 60's era 1-ton regular cab, 8' bed. Or bigger.

I even had a 2000 Dakota sport model for a little while and it rode like a small truck, not a car. Drove a 2010 Sport and a 2012 Longhorn. Neither rode near as smoothly as the Rebel, but all these trucks felt fine to me for daily driving / commuting and for work and pleasure. Even my wife is surprised by how nice the Rebel is, she's more than used to heavy truck suspensions. The kids would have loved it. Rides nicer than the various trucks/jeeps I had when they were still at home.

Oh, btw, there's no proof that lower ply tires always equal better fuel economy. Rolling friction is caused primarily by tire flex. The stiffer the tire, the easier it is to roll it. Weight is a factor, too, but there comes a point where the effect of weight on rolling friction is offset by flex. You get more flex from thinner rubber, fewer plies, and lower air pressure in the tire. The math is more than I care to try to post here. But suffice to say it's there.
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lmeavtitn
TooByFoor said:
Yikes!! All I did was ask some questions... :)

I didn't complain about the ride of the Rebel. I think it's fine (all though the wife and kids don't necessarily agree). I don't want to put P rated tires on it. Had them on my 1500 Sport... THAT rode like a car. But, it sucked towing and I've had my fair share of flats in precarious situations through the years.

After changing a tire on an old logging road in northern Ontario surrounded by angry Indians, I put LT tires on the Sport, against the advice of 2 different tire shops that said it was "too much tire" for a 1/2 ton truck. They were great off-road and towing, but rough the other 75% of the time.

Hence the Rebel. Air suspension + LT tires/taller sidewall seemed like it'd be a good balance for my daily driver, family road trip, hunting/fishing, camper pulling truck. And for the most part it is. But, it's still LT tires on a stock 1/2 ton truck. Would it be bad to drop to a 6 or 8 ply for a little better balance?

If you drop to a lower rated tire on a 3/4 ton, you've affected the payload, towing and such, right? I doubt the same applies to the 1/2 ton Rebel... does it?

The suspension is "designed" for LT tires. What does that mean, exactly? Designed for 10 ply pro-grade tires, or just bigger tires?
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It does effect the Rebel too, even though it's just a half-ton truck. The suspension is designed for a stiffer tire. Our truck has air shocks that are tuned for LT tires. Look at the DOT placard on your driver's side door...it also says LT. Going to a P rated tire, you'll find your truck bouncy and it won't stop or steer as well. Also, you are asking for trouble if you get in an accident and the insurance company finds out your tire selection isn't up-to-par with what the OEM requires.

If you're just looking for a lighter LT (E rated) tire, just do some research and find a lighter tire but one that is still LT rated. That way you'll have less unsprung weight at the wheels but you'll still maintain the load requirement.
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lmeavtitn
Another thing to consider is the tire PSI. It would just be an annoyance thing but if you go with a P rated tire, you'll have to run a lower psi than what the Rebel's E rated tires hold. So say you keep them at 39 PSI which is what the other Rams with factory P rated tires, you're "check tire light" will be illuminated on your dashboard all the time. The truck's computer is tuned to let you know if you have a low tire keeping in check 55 front/45 rear and unfortunately that can't be changed.
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lmeavtitn said:
It does effect the Rebel too, even though it's just a half-ton truck. The suspension is designed for a stiffer tire. Our truck has air shocks that are tuned for LT tires. Look at the DOT placard on your driver's side door...it also says LT. Going to a P rated tire, you'll find your truck bouncy and it won't stop or steer as well. Also, you are asking for trouble if you get in an accident and the insurance company finds out your tire selection isn't up-to-par with what the OEM requires.
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Thank you, lmeavtitn. This is the kind if information I'm looking for with this thread.

So, from a compliance/technical perspective, you can't put anything less than an LT tire on this even if it'll still handle the load the truck is spec'd for?

Might affect the warranty, too?
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R
These trucks are marketed and rated to be able to haul a certain amount of cargo and tow a certain amount of weight. The tires have to be able to live up to that rating. When I bought my 04 SLT Quad Cab Hemi, it came with optional 20" wheels and P-metric Goodyear tires. I didn't find out until after the fact, after reading on a forum , that the tire and wheel package I got actually reduced the tow rating of the truck by 1000 pounds. After finding this information, I had to call Chrysler to confirm that it was true(never found it mentioned in the owner's manual). When you are looking at towing 30' RV trailers, that thousand pounds makes a big difference. It was a big reason why I swapped to 17" aftermarket wheels and D load rated tires. I also leveled the front end at the same time. At, to my surprise, the result was still a nice ride and good handling for a 1500 truck. Way better than any Chevy or Ford I ever drove.


All that said, if you prefer P-metrics, just realize that you might, and I stress might, be improving the ride and/or mileage, but you are giving something up for that and that is likely the ability to tow or haul heavier loads. If you have a true highway queen and never tow a trailer, then maybe it's worth the tradeoff to you.
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RAMblinMan said:
These trucks are marketed and rated to be able to haul a certain amount of cargo and tow a certain amount of weight. The tires have to be able to live up to that rating.
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Yes, but if you look at the payload and tow ratings of the Rebel it's no different than that of other comparable 1500s running P rated tires. It's exactly the same as a Sport actually, if you exclude the extra weight of the air suspension.

Again, I'm not advocating for P rated tires. Just trying to understand if there's a technical reason for LTs on this, or if it's just to appeal to the truck owners (like me) that don't think a truck should come with car tires.
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johnj
I'd say go buy car tires if you want. There is no exact requirement other than load requirement, and I said before you can run any tire you want as long as it's rated for the load. (2nd post in this thread - first reply, paragraph 3). LT tire ratings are recommendations only. Truck tires are not *required* in this class of vehicle.

BUT....... It's a truck, and it's on the high end of its class weight and near GVWR limits already. Car tires don't make sense at all to most of us, but it's because technically a heavier duty tire makes good sense. Not that it's a technically exact minimum requirement.

It's like asking about replacing the engine with a 4 cylinder. You could do that. We aren't recommending that, either. But there's no law or technical requirement saying you can't. You might want a lower rear end to make it work better. A lot lower.
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TooByFoor said:
Just trying to understand if there's a technical reason for LTs on this, or if it's just to appeal to the truck owners (like me) that don't think a truck should come with car tires.
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Yes. No.

Some really smart people (engineers) chose the tires for the truck for a reason (science and math). You can either stick with what they came up with or you can put 24" spinners and low profiles. Your insurance company might not like it if you get in an accident especially if it's because you couldn't control your truck on your wagon wheels. It's a free country. (I am not saying this is what you want to do. Yes I am exaggerating to make a point. Your experience may vary. Reading this may cause nausea, upset stomach or vomiting. Do not take internally.)

It's a truck. I think you got your answer multiple times in this thread already. Keep asking though and someone might give you an answer you will accept. >:)

And yes, I am a sarcastic a$$h0le most of the time. No offence is intended. Did I mention it's a full size truck? :p
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T
This thread has turned into a one-sided pi$$ing contest about LT tires on a 1/2 ton truck. That wasn't what I was looking for at all, so I'll just end this with a "nevermind".
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C
To the best of my knowledge there are no FCA engineers in here so you are only ever going to get end user conjecture, opinions based on experience of people who use a full size truck and (intelligent?) guesses as to what they think. My point is that it has become a circle. You ask the same question and get the same answers more than once. I would suggest you try to find a way to ask one of the engineers that designed the Rebel or ANY engineer who designs off-road editions of full size trucks to see if their off-road creations are ok with car rated tires.

If there are any vehicle design engineers in here then it would be nice if they chimed in. Maybe none of us really understand your question since you seem to think no one has answered it yet.

Have a great day and don't stop asking questions. I forget sometimes that not everyone has a thick skin and can take a ribbing.
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johnj
Actually I thought at least 3 people gave you solid answers specifically answering your question. No, there is no pure technical reason. And as a couple responded, it was designed by engineers the way it was for offroading and overall handling. But you can run anything on it. The wisdom of doing such on such a heavy vehicle is subject to question. And certainly you can find softer tires that have sufficient load limits.

Yet you still asked the same related question about LT tires a third time. What do you want from us? Maybe just a link to stuff we googled? Google says: first hit from searching "lt vs p tires difference"

(from tirerack.com, which is a reputable source for tire info)

"Euro-metric and P-metric tire sizes were originally designed for cars and station wagons; however, they have also been used for light truck applications because most vans, pickup trucks and SUVs are used to carry passengers, not cargo. Additionally, most of the new light trucks being produced today are equipped with Euro- or P-metric sized tires because they offer lighter weight, lower rolling resistance and less aggressive tread designs (which makes them better riding, more fuel efficient and less noisy) than typical heavy-duty tires."
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